Infection / Destruction / Hope

The 3rd and final Morningstar Saga book, SURVIVORS, is now available for pre-order here!

The Morningstar Saga
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SignorVampa

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Ok, the ghost writer of Survivors is defending the changes to the last book on amazon so I thought I'd ask here:

In the last book, the virus suddenly went airborne but only would affect people who were dead, if they died. There was no lead up, no hinting, no nothing, this just occurred in the last book.

Am I the only person who was annoyed by this change in continuity?

Or did I miss something in the first few 2 books that would lead a train of thought to the virus being airborne suddenly, but not making runners, only making shamblers once a person died?

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Reply with quote  #2 
Thanks for the spoiler, asshole
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alex51

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Reply with quote  #3 
The new post heading would indicate a spoiler so no need to be rude to a new person.
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Reply with quote  #4 
That was a jocular ball-busting use of the phrase 
I sometimes forget my sarcasm and personality dosnt translate well through text. 

-I finished the book, no spoiler to be had

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PotentialSpectre

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I really need to reiterate, that's your assumption that it was my change. In all the back and forth, I've never said definitively that it was my decision to do so, or that it was in Z's notes or manuscript. I've followed trains of logic and asked leading questions, but all that is in order to maintain the undisclosed nature of the manuscript's authorship.

With that said, I shall now ask more leading questions. Is it your stated opinion that Morningstar has a "hot time," as you put it, and biological material left over from carriers would be safe after some time has passed?

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Practicing for city council PS?
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Just a touch. I talk differently to new people than I do you guys. Look back, it'll be pretty easy to tell I wasn't overly familiar with anybody when I started posting.

And, like I said, that particular cat about who wrote what is not getting out of this bag. So, I have to ask questions instead of provide straight answers, especially about plot developments and others' assumptions of what I "changed."

On Amazon, this person dared me to find one character that turned without being bitten. I gave narration from Thunder and Ashes that was dismissed, then put up Darin as an example... which was also immediately dismissed. Never mind that he was so entirely confident that I wouldn't be able to find a single instance of someone becoming infected without a bite.

I'm trying to be cool about it, but when you ask me to find one character, "I dare you," and then when I've really found three (there were five men locked in that room, and three turned out to be carriers) dismiss it and change the question... well, I was pretty sure whatever I said after that would be just as quickly dismissed.

It's just as well that the thread was started here. Now we can all play.

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Reply with quote  #9 
I was just teasing you anyway glad you didnt blow your stack i might have started Being dillo...i mean trolling
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SignorVampa

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotentialSpectre


With that said, I shall now ask more leading questions. Is it your stated opinion that Morningstar has a "hot time," as you put it, and biological material left over from carriers would be safe after some time has passed?


No, that's, as General Sherman put it, 'Virology 101'.

And it was stated, many, many times in the past 2 books.

A virus cannot survive without a host or something to keep it going.

Should you lick a plate after someone with ebola coughs on it? Probably not, but after a certain amount of time, it dies.

As for the other two:

A 'well placed sneeze/badly timed sneeze'. If someone sneezes and it lands on you, and you wipe it away, it lands in your eye, something along those lines, yes it gets to infect you. Does that make it airborne? No it means it's among the spittle and whatnot that you catch it.

And Darin got BRAIN MIST breathed in. INFECTED Brain mist will infect him.

I find it hard to believe that Recht would have come up with it, or at least had it explained in such a manner that made sense.

You kept trying to defend this change though, bird flu changing/etc. Seemed like a personal thing. I could be wrong of course.

I didn't change the subject, you just didn't see how it pertained to the bit at hand.

When Decker rubbed away the blood off his boots, how thick was the towel or whatever he used, and it's *quite* easily explained that he touched somewhere he shouldn't have or didn't wash up.

Same thing happened in Thunder and Ashes: They were executing the dead runners, and the sheriff and the others had to bathe in bleach to get it out.

It's things like that, or the fact that you didn't recognize the phrase 'hot time' that were used multiple times in the previous books that led me to believe you hadn't read the books. Again, I was wrong with that, but you didn't pay attention to it either.

All the things you listed, everything pertaining to how the virus spread was pretty cut and dry. The virus being airborne would make no sense. The people dying from 'dirty bullets' as you inferred wouldn't make sense either.

Like when they were talking about Doc Meyer, the virus needs to spread enough first. When a body stops working, it dies, the blood doesn't pump, the virus will not spread. So when the person at the end who dies from a gunshot, comes back, there's no way for it to work in the context of the story because the virus could NOT have spread that fast.

You mentioned before the differences in time of infection is also answered in the previous books. It depends on how close it is to a vital area. A bite to the calf probably would just a bit shorter as it would general spread from fluid on fluid contact because it'd get into the blood stream. When it gets in through the eye, mouth, etc, it'd take that 7 days that was mentioned.

But a bite to the neck? That's arterial. That means it's going to spread and spray and go to the heart of things, pun intended, so much quicker.


Edit: Sorry I miss worded/misunderstood. Language barrier here. I was trying to say without direct connection to the virus. Without fluid on fluid contact. That was my mistake. Apologies.

It's still pretty clear that the rules for the lore were established, that the virus must come into contact with someone else, not airborne mind you.

And for general virus info:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_a_virus_need_a_host_to_live

The virus would not have been on any of the soldier's bullets. There is no way it could have survived, even if we take into account this being a fantasy novel.

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotentialSpectre


With that said, I shall now ask more leading questions. Is it your stated opinion that Morningstar has a "hot time," as you put it, and biological material left over from carriers would be safe after some time has passed?


No, that's, as General Sherman put it, 'Virology 101'.

And it was stated, many, many times in the past 2 books.

A virus cannot survive without a host or something to keep it going.


I find the link interesting. Did you read that page? The best question (and most topical here) posed there is not, "does a virus need a host to live," but "does a virus need a host to survive?"

Anna Demilio was of the opinion that outbreaks of Morningstar would be never-ending for the human race, even after all the carriers were dead. Does anyone else remember that?

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PotentialSpectre

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
It's things like that, or the fact that you didn't recognize the phrase 'hot time' that were used multiple times in the previous books that led me to believe you hadn't read the books. Again, I was wrong with that, but you didn't pay attention to it either.


Since you brought it up again, in the 589 pages of pre-existing* Morningstar Saga, the phrase "hot time" was used exactly... zero times.

* - I'm basing my claim on the Permuted Press editions. If someone with the S&S versions could check, that'd be splendid.

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SignorVampa

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Hold on, another language thing, lemmie see if it was 'hot time' or something similar.

Either way, the idea should still be the same, the virus had a 'hot' something, I'll dig it out in a second.

Any virus does need a host to survive, period though. Without something for the virus to work off of/spread/manipulate/etc it would waste away. And, I'm not being snarky again, but please refresh my memory of where Anna said that.

I'm trying to steer this back toward the main problem I had with the ending though: you implied the bullets that the soldiers used were 'unclean' through their trip. There are two problems with this:

One, aforementioned 'no host no survive' aspect, the bullets would not become 'infected carriers'.

Even if there were some new mutant strain of self aware virus that could sustain itself for long periods outside of a host, this brings up the second problem. It is also well established that the virus must multiply and spread through the host before it can alter a person. If a person were shot by some form of infected bullet, or hell, injected after they died, the virus would not be able to spread throughout the body and give the virus the ability to culture/change/etc.

Someone being shot, even if they bled out within a few hours time (which I'm guessing didn't happen at the end of Survivors) there's no way the virus could make someone a shambler in that short a time period.

I do notice you keep asking leading questions. Again, as a writer, if you have to 'lead someone' down a path when it comes to assumed answers, you might have missed something. Someone should be able to draw these conclusions on their own when reading a story.

I know i'm not the only one, but the problem with the ending I, and I know others had been asking, was 'why are these uninfected people getting up and walking around'. Obviously you missed something, or are assuming something that was not implied.

Recht's books were pretty straightforward. They explained how the virus worked (even if it did take liberties with the 'how a virus could alter someone's metabolism/etc'). It's fiction. That's easy to get. But when you start making changes to the established lore, it makes it sorta messed up. There was no train off thought from the previous books nor any mention of someone getting shot having to be put down a second time.

Hell, look at Abraham: They shot the runners twice, but there's no mention of the townsfolk re-executing the raiders after they defended the rear of the town. There's was no mention of a rush for them to get out there and execute them. Do you see where I'm coming from here?

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SignorVampa

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Reply with quote  #14 
Ah they just called it 'hot blood', my mistake. "Hot blood" was used to just refer to the fresh blood spilled. They didn't know *how* long it would take (my mistaking it for time) to become sterile. So they stayed clear.

"Standard virology: we don't know how long Morningstar lives in exposed blood, basic stuff. Didn't you learn any of that in college?"

This implies, like any virus, it has a 'hot' period, and obviously, it will 'cool off'.

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Reply with quote  #15 
Wherever there have been questions about the events or reasons for things in Pavlov's Dogs, my answers were always straightforward. Nary a leading question. There are implications here.

So here's another leading question, since we're talking about virology 101: how is the virus staying viable in the shamblers? Inside the room-temperature shamblers.

And the last thing, the phrase "hot blood," how many times are you calling "multiple times?" Because I only count one (1) in each novel.  So, basically, I'm asking if you're put out because you think I missed something that was mentioned a grand total of twice in the entirety of the first two books? Hmm.

What's Brewster's eye color?

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SignorVampa

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Showing off because you know his eye color, that's nice and all, but you're deflecting again, like when you brought up Mitsui's disappearing english, stay focused:

Hot Blood was mentiond once, but the 'blood still being dangerous' was used many times. You're indignant, I get it. You're ignoring the questions at hand like you claimed I did. Zombie Bullets don't explain away a plot hole.

As for the shamblers: it's hinted at that the virus alters the host's metabolism/etc. Sure that's fantasy, but if it does that to shamblers: They have a viable host for a bit, their body would be in a form of suspended animation. Since the virus is in manual control, it doesn't need any nutrients for things like 'keeping the body warm, burning calories to do this that or the other'. It could use whatever is there and stretch it out.

All theoretical but they make sense.

Bullets that traveled across the country, being pumped into a person who bled out and turned into a shambler do not make sense.

You jump around better than a Chinese Acrobat at the circus.

Again I'm talking about established ideas, and I think out and write out responses because I'm open to discussion and talking. You however are throwing questions up with nary anything to really back it up from the story. Hell,l this time you changed from question asking about things on topic to 'OH YEAH well how's THIS work" and "SEE I DID READ THE NOVEL".

Again, sorry I offended you, I truly mean that. And for our discussion on Amazon, that was a language thing, and again I apologize for blowing that out of proportion.

Instead of "Oh yeah well THIS happened so this can excuse this plot hole", instead of "YEAH I READ THE BOOK"';

I ask you:

If the bullets could not carry the infection, if

*SPOILER HERE SPOILER*


Mason did not have time to turn into a Runner, how in god's green earth did he turn into a shambler? If the virus somehow got splattered on every soldier's bullets, time and again on the trip to Nebraska, if they soaked it in hot blood until a day before, and by some magic didn't burn up when fired out of a gun, how did Mason turn into a shambler when the virus wouldn't have had time to turn him into a runner before he bled out?

Even taking into consideration he got hit near the heart, he died before he turned into a runner. If he died, the heart won't beat or spread the blood. If the virus does hit a good tract of vein and whatnot, it'll spread, but if nothing is beating to move it, it cannot spread out enough to 'take over with manual' instead of autopilot.


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Reply with quote  #17 
Guys, I like that the whys and whats are being discussed but I would prefer that the personal attacks are stopped before they get out of hand. 



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cleopori2001

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Reply with quote  #18 
I know that you want to use real life logic on this fictional 
Metaphorical subject, but I assure it is almost not possible for you to try to win this argument, or stumpsomeone on this topic. You explain explicitly about virology, and are very adamant about showing that you are educated In Such things. I too am an educated person, specifically in the medical profession. Some people even go as far as to say that I am a human anatomy.Boom. Anyway, I digress.

The whole point of authors telling a story for all to SEE is so they can share the world that they create with you. Sometimes you will have those types that are only in it for the money, but I can almost assure hou that is not the case with survivors. PS wanted to help all fans of the MSS complete their journey through the Zpaw from Zs perspective and volunteer to do it. That being said you do not have to attempt to use real life logic here to make your statement. If you are truly working on lore or whatever that's fine I suppose. Here are a few thoughts that mind open your perspective about the MSS.

All a virus needs is an environment to survive. Certain conditionTrojans to be met and they will live.

Not all virueii are blood born.

Also all virueii have the ability to evolve.

Hiv when not on a host can last up to 5 minutes on a tabletop without dying off.

Hepatitis can live a minimum of 4 hours up to 4 days without a host.

Certain virueii have the ability when their conditions aren't met to enter I to a spore-like state until a host comes along and somehow provides said virus with the environment it needs to "reactivate" .

With all of these facts in mind would it not be possible for your. Rain to use a little bit of imagination to fill In the blanks of the unexplained. I personally have spoken with Z about this book, not because I was a crazed fan, but a genuine friend. He explicitly told me that one of the things about this whole series was to keep the readers guessing. He even thought of several different ways it should end. I want to even go as far to say that they might have been in his notes/manuscript before specter took over.

P.s. I am pretty sure that in almost all of the books there has been some sort of example of the virus not being spread specifically by bodily fluids. I mean in POD it was spread on several different planes just by people traveling. 
SignorVampa

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@ cleopori2001

I know applying real life logic to a fantasy story is flawed.

But I'm big on the 'rules' of different stories. I love worlds created that have their own physics and whatnot. I love it in sci-fi, I love it in comic books, I love it in Lovecraftian horror.

But for the most part, there were established or pretty logical explanations to The Morningstar Strain: Fluidic contact, bites being most common, tearing open of skin, whatnot, to spread the virus.

Pertaining to the spoiler I previously mentioned, the entire climax makes no sense, that is what I've been getting at this entire time.

I do have my differences with the ghost writer's style and choices to ignore a buncha Chekhov's gun stuff, but that's down to personal writing style.

The book is still readable, but with an anti-climax at the end because it doesn't make sense within that universe. With most of the other reviewers on amazon it seemed the common complaint was it didn't 'feel' the same. That's debatable.

I just have a problem with a change up in the 'rules' as it were, with no explanation.

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You're very passionate about a book you feel is so anti-climactic, that you feel the need to go to different websites to debate what the AUTHOR did wrong.


I'll make it real simple, their novel, their rules. Still feel it dosnt make sense to you? Deal with it or read something else, instead you're coming to this forum looking like a real shit eating troll. That's how you're making yourself look, prove me otherwise.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Showing off because you know his eye color, that's nice and all, but you're deflecting again, like when you brought up Mitsui's disappearing english, stay focused:

Actually, I'm not showing off, or deflecting. I'm illustrating a point. The subject of how long contaminated blood stays viable with Morningstar comes up far less often than you're saying it does, and in the entirety of the text, no one knows. Not even Anna Demilio, who had been studying Morningstar in lab rats for two years before the outbreak. And she, the foremost scholar on the subject that is stall walking the earth, is convinced that Morningstar will return again and again without a vaccine, even after every sprinter and shambler is history. Who am I to argue with her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Hot Blood was mentiond once, but the 'blood still being dangerous' was used many times. You're indignant, I get it. You're ignoring the questions at hand like you claimed I did. Zombie Bullets don't explain away a plot hole.

As for the shamblers: it's hinted at that the virus alters the host's metabolism/etc. Sure that's fantasy, but if it does that to shamblers: They have a viable host for a bit, their body would be in a form of suspended animation. Since the virus is in manual control, it doesn't need any nutrients for things like 'keeping the body warm, burning calories to do this that or the other'. It could use whatever is there and stretch it out.

All theoretical but they make sense.

Now, where's your citation? Is there anywhere in the books besides the initial examination of Dr. Klaus where they talk about anything like that? Not Sprinters and the changes Morningstar makes to them, that's more than hinted at. The Shamblers. How warm, exactly, do you think the shamblers are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Bullets that traveled across the country, being pumped into a person who bled out and turned into a shambler do not make sense.

You jump around better than a Chinese Acrobat at the circus.

Again I'm talking about established ideas, and I think out and write out responses because I'm open to discussion and talking. You however are throwing questions up with nary anything to really back it up from the story. Hell,l this time you changed from question asking about things on topic to 'OH YEAH well how's THIS work" and "SEE I DID READ THE NOVEL".

I'm not jumping around. I do this one thing at a time. Haven't you noticed? That's why I prefer to make a single post for a single point and move on.

Evidently, you're not paying attention to the stated reason I'm asking questions instead of firing answers back. Go on and read over again, you'll see it sooner or later.

As for "nary anything to back it up from the story," the story and a pile of Z's notes are all I have to go on. My only reference for everything we've talked about comes from Plague of the Dead, Thunder and Ashes and what I had for Survivors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
If the bullets could not carry the infection, if

*SPOILER HERE SPOILER*


Mason did not have time to turn into a Runner, how in god's green earth did he turn into a shambler? If the virus somehow got splattered on every soldier's bullets, time and again on the trip to Nebraska, if they soaked it in hot blood until a day before, and by some magic didn't burn up when fired out of a gun, how did Mason turn into a shambler when the virus wouldn't have had time to turn him into a runner before he bled out?

Even taking into consideration he got hit near the heart, he died before he turned into a runner. If he died, the heart won't beat or spread the blood. If the virus does hit a good tract of vein and whatnot, it'll spread, but if nothing is beating to move it, it cannot spread out enough to 'take over with manual' instead of autopilot.

...who said I was talking about Mason's fight with Sawyer? Mason has been laid up for an awful long time. And you'll note that his bunkie didn't turn. Hmm.


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SignorVampa

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeper
You're very passionate about a book you feel is so anti-climactic, that you feel the need to go to different websites to debate what the AUTHOR did wrong.


I'll make it real simple, their novel, their rules. Still feel it dosnt make sense to you? Deal with it or read something else, instead you're coming to this forum looking like a real shit eating troll. That's how you're making yourself look, prove me otherwise.


Came here to see how other fans felt. The author chimed in. So there was that.

But hey, feel how you want to feel.

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotentialSpectre

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Showing off because you know his eye color, that's nice and all, but you're deflecting again, like when you brought up Mitsui's disappearing english, stay focused:

Actually, I'm not showing off, or deflecting. I'm illustrating a point. The subject of how long contaminated blood stays viable with Morningstar comes up far less often than you're saying it does, and in the entirety of the text, no one knows. Not even Anna Demilio, who had been studying Morningstar in lab rats for two years before the outbreak. And she, the foremost scholar on the subject that is stall walking the earth, is convinced that Morningstar will return again and again without a vaccine, even after every sprinter and shambler is history. Who am I to argue with her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Hot Blood was mentiond once, but the 'blood still being dangerous' was used many times. You're indignant, I get it. You're ignoring the questions at hand like you claimed I did. Zombie Bullets don't explain away a plot hole.

As for the shamblers: it's hinted at that the virus alters the host's metabolism/etc. Sure that's fantasy, but if it does that to shamblers: They have a viable host for a bit, their body would be in a form of suspended animation. Since the virus is in manual control, it doesn't need any nutrients for things like 'keeping the body warm, burning calories to do this that or the other'. It could use whatever is there and stretch it out.

All theoretical but they make sense.

Now, where's your citation? Is there anywhere in the books besides the initial examination of Dr. Klaus where they talk about anything like that? Not Sprinters and the changes Morningstar makes to them, that's more than hinted at. The Shamblers. How warm, exactly, do you think the shamblers are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
Bullets that traveled across the country, being pumped into a person who bled out and turned into a shambler do not make sense.

You jump around better than a Chinese Acrobat at the circus.

Again I'm talking about established ideas, and I think out and write out responses because I'm open to discussion and talking. You however are throwing questions up with nary anything to really back it up from the story. Hell,l this time you changed from question asking about things on topic to 'OH YEAH well how's THIS work" and "SEE I DID READ THE NOVEL".

I'm not jumping around. I do this one thing at a time. Haven't you noticed? That's why I prefer to make a single post for a single point and move on.

Evidently, you're not paying attention to the stated reason I'm asking questions instead of firing answers back. Go on and read over again, you'll see it sooner or later.

As for "nary anything to back it up from the story," the story and a pile of Z's notes are all I have to go on. My only reference for everything we've talked about comes from Plague of the Dead, Thunder and Ashes and what I had for Survivors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignorVampa
If the bullets could not carry the infection, if

*SPOILER HERE SPOILER*


Mason did not have time to turn into a Runner, how in god's green earth did he turn into a shambler? If the virus somehow got splattered on every soldier's bullets, time and again on the trip to Nebraska, if they soaked it in hot blood until a day before, and by some magic didn't burn up when fired out of a gun, how did Mason turn into a shambler when the virus wouldn't have had time to turn him into a runner before he bled out?

Even taking into consideration he got hit near the heart, he died before he turned into a runner. If he died, the heart won't beat or spread the blood. If the virus does hit a good tract of vein and whatnot, it'll spread, but if nothing is beating to move it, it cannot spread out enough to 'take over with manual' instead of autopilot.

...who said I was talking about Mason's fight with Sawyer? Mason has been laid up for an awful long time. And you'll note that his bunkie didn't turn. Hmm.



It saddens me that you don't get it and you keep saying more things that don't make sense, so rather than combat them all, or apply more logic I'll finish this with one simple thing: you keep bringing up 'well maybe it was this maybe it was that'. As for your references, I've seen a handful of times you referenced direct text, but nothing insofar as to how the virus would be spread by bullets, or anything really besides another host. I see you defending the ridiculous 'you don't know how long the blood is still contagious' thing, but that's you grasping at straws.

If Mason was somehow infected there was no reference to it, especially not after his fight, after he got his punctured wound. Why would he not have turned for many months?

I thought it was weird about Harris not turning either, his guts were hanging out. So if a zombie didn't do it, and instead he slipped and fell onto a rake or something, being operated on in the same place Mason was.

Long and the short of it is: You had people being infected with no cause, besides the 'dirty bullets' aspect of it.

As for a virus: you should read up on more of it before you claim something as silly as bullets that didn't stay in pristine condition cross country.

A virus is not going to live on, and the 'hot blood' is not something that's going to last for long long periods of time.

As a writer you did pretty damn well with the rest of the story, but the ending just didn't have any real pay off and ended with a random  'hey these people are infected now' sorta thing that didn't keep in tone or follow the rules of the previous books. You're write, the previous books didn't follow with the basic rules of infection. When I raised the query on Amazon, you inferred this that and the third.

Ambiguity has a time and a place of course, but when the ways the infection spread have been covered pretty extensively, and then you have someone who was not infected for months, become infected and rise from the dead for seemingly no reason other than it makes sense to some form of logic you are following internally but not sharing on paper, it needs a bit more clearing up.

As for the shamblers, as I said it was theoretical. The first book mentioned the possibility of an altered metabolism.

Not as many people as I thought would be on here sadly. I know some of the other amazon reviewers thought the "Mason is a zombie now" was pretty weak, and I was trying to gauge the other fan's reactions.

I honestly wasn't trolling, nor was I trying to confront you here. The more I think about it, the more I think this should've been in the 101 section.

Since there's no one really here anyway, I'll just wait till the rest of the folks I know who read the zombie books to get a hold of the book. 

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Reply with quote  #24 
I think they're just watching. You know, eating popcorn and enjoying the show. I'm sure when the weekend is over there might be some more activity. 

It's funny that you think I don't make sense. Any supposition of how the virus survived in a Shambler (body heat, calorie intake and burning, etc.) is your own idea, not what was presented in the novels. Perhaps you've lived with those assumptions since the novels first came out, but that doesn't make your ideas better or any more true to canon than mine. It's been my understanding all along that Shamblers lose heat. In the Zombie 101 forum, it was Z's supposition that zombies have no "natural heating system." Was he talking about Morningstar Shamblers? Impossible to say, but there it is.

Your "Virology 101" suppositions are also contrary to what was presented in the novels. You keep bringing up how they bathed in bleach and washed up because they were afraid of "hot blood," but not one time was it given how long Morningstar could survive without a host.

You keep telling me to think logically about it, but you're obviously starting from a different place than I am if you believe the virus is warm and happy inside a months-dead body. I'm so glad Dr. Klaus made an appearance in Survivors, because he perfectly illustrates my point. I believe Dr. Klaus was as hot or cold as the environment he was in, so if that's true... how does Morningstar survive in Shamblers?

There is also the stated in-head thinking by the top virologist in the Morningstar Universe. Perhaps you should re-read Thunder and Ashes and reconsider real-world virology vs Morningstar Saga virology. Telling me to read up in viruses and how they behave doesn't change what was presented in Plague or T&A.

As to the ending and its payoff, I've read more reviews that were happy with the ending than otherwise. How you feel about the ending is your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

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PotentialSpectre

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Reply with quote  #25 
And for your edification, when you're out on other forums letting people know that I never give a straight answer, don't forget to share WHY. You know, the reasons I've given here and on Amazon. Or don't.

Ha ha, troll. Here I was, all benefit of the doubt, even though following me around the internet seemed a little weird, but now I see that on another board, and I'm over it. If you want to ignore the reasons I can't give straight answers, go ahead. But at least stop pretending that you're not trolling.

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