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helling

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brony guardian
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Reply with quote  #1 
I was in the woods playing with my crosman 760 and i did a little zombie target shoot(tryed out the bin-lot zombie) and it got me thinking about WWZ and there armaments t would kind of weapon wound a large armed force  fighting zombies use in a world a little resource like WWZ?

I saw some pic's people had of there idea's what the WWZ Standard Infantry Rifle looked like M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle or a FAL without the pistol grips. I thought it would be more ruger 14 mayself.

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Welcome to Death Weapon Meister Academy. More commonly known as the DWMA. It stands as a defense against the forces of zombies , which would plunge the world into chaos and drag humanity into the very depths of fear and madness. The demons known as zombies , and their eternal hunger for destruction. To ensure that zombies never take hold on this world, this Academy was founded. So basically we're an organization that serves to protect and preserve peace! I guess it's not exactly a typical school. Oh well, that isn't important! For now, lets roll up our sleeves and get to work!
RedneckZombieHunter

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Reply with quote  #2 

MAG fed SKS......... all the way. Chinese type 386?? I forget.


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We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra."
Better THEM, than Me!-The only person who could miss with this gun is the sucker with the bread to buy it...... You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you dont want to fight in a GD basement. Just a reminder, Tuesday is Soylent Green day!
AvtomatJ

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Reply with quote  #3 
Realistically, the USA would be using M-16 variants of one sort or another.  There would be enough lying about and in the inventory, that replacing it with something else wouldn't make any sense.

In WWZ, I always thought the rifle the USA adopted was a modification of the original AR-18 design.

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"... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -David "Davy" Crockett

"I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!" -Pvt. Joker, Full Metal Jacket
RedneckZombieHunter

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Reply with quote  #4 
I was thinking that too. BUT machining required to build an M4 or a AR10 must be huge, CNC machines etc... I'm curious to know how many manhours of machining it takes to build one???? the PPS 43 is 2.5 mhrs down from 6 for the ppsh41, I did find that info.

I also think you could not build an M4 style with hand tools even with a belt powered lathe. Where as some of the more simple designs SKS,PPS,AK could be easily built. Seems like the WWZ guns were semi-auto only? Makes sense, hence the WW2 bolt guns that were used primarly for ammo conservation 2ndly for accuraccy. Makes ya wonder how many US troops died due to lack of ammo because they spun all their ammo out too quickly? Always two sides to the coin.

When reading it I always saw in my head AK mag fed SKS's chambered in .223.

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We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra."
Better THEM, than Me!-The only person who could miss with this gun is the sucker with the bread to buy it...... You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you dont want to fight in a GD basement. Just a reminder, Tuesday is Soylent Green day!
AvtomatJ

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Reply with quote  #5 
I came to the conclusion that SIR was a modular, wood stocked interpretation of the original AR-18 while reading the book.  I also pictured it taking standard M-16 magazines.  The AR-18 was originally designed to be a cheaper alliterative to the AR-15/M-16 weapons series.  It uses a gas piston system similar to the AK.  It is also made from a lot of stamped steel parts, so as to be more easily manufactured in countries w/o a huge industrial base.

I always thought Max Brooks was way off on the way he portrayed assault rifles being full-auto.  I know from first hand accounts from Iraq war and Afghanistan War vets that our boys (and girls) over seas almost never actually use the auto or burst option on their M-4s and M-16s.  Also, if you really wanted to prevent use of full-auto, it would be easy to convert them to be semi-auto only.  Hell, there are probably enough civilian fire control groups and selectors out there to retro-fit all existing M4/M16s.

It would take years and/or really bad attrition rates to switch over to anything else in a ZPAW.  AR-15/M-16 receivers are usually made from forged billets that are machined down to spec.  It must not take a whole lot to actually do the process, being there are a crap load of companies out there doing it now, and selling them for under $100.

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"... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -David "Davy" Crockett

"I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!" -Pvt. Joker, Full Metal Jacket
RedneckZombieHunter

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Reply with quote  #6 
Could be, more like the Commie AR's 180's??

Hell we both know Max don't know doodle about guns....just something he made up.

I think you would still need a computer driven CNC machine to build one? My point was you could not sit down at a bench and grind one out from a block of metal.

Dosen't really matter cause there would be a crapload of parts around, like you said every tom,dick and harry is building them.

Oh also a good example is the "NCR trooper rifle" off fallout New Vegas.

ServiceRifle.png




__________________
We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra."
Better THEM, than Me!-The only person who could miss with this gun is the sucker with the bread to buy it...... You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you dont want to fight in a GD basement. Just a reminder, Tuesday is Soylent Green day!
helling

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brony guardian
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Reply with quote  #7 
I look at who uses(the poor armys of the world) what and how long they have been useing it, and that we use the M-16 to come to this. Maybe a HK33(very cheap to make vs a AR or so i have readed)

IMI Galil(way better and cheaper then a AR but because during the late 1960s and early 1970s Israel received large shipments of the US M16 and CAR-15 assault rifles at the very low prices(free also) it did get not widely issued to the IDF during its lifetime) also it basically can be described as a modified Kalashnikov design so it has that going for it.

and the ruger mini-14 with heaver barrels( the rifle employs an investment cast and it's a very easy to use and clean weapon).

to me yeah,we would at 1st be using M-16  but from the people i have talked to, readied about and the few ar-15 i have used i know we could not maintained them for long(many already in use now need updateing). there parts monsters(so many things to go wrong and you need lots of extra parts to keep one running), the charging hand is very easy to break(also did it myself and was told the charging handle is the achilles heel of the AR design ) and their more but to get to the point the M16/ar-15 is a lamborghini and like one is very high maintenance and other designs are more pick-up or SUV maintenance.  I can see lots of M16's going down in a zombie war because of maintenance and soldiers breaking stuff on them(I remember once  i was at a gun store and they had a new AR-15 sitting on a glass display case and it got knock over falling to a carpeted floor. The stock broke off and the mag was driven so far into the action, they had to use a vice to removed it.)


__________________
Welcome to Death Weapon Meister Academy. More commonly known as the DWMA. It stands as a defense against the forces of zombies , which would plunge the world into chaos and drag humanity into the very depths of fear and madness. The demons known as zombies , and their eternal hunger for destruction. To ensure that zombies never take hold on this world, this Academy was founded. So basically we're an organization that serves to protect and preserve peace! I guess it's not exactly a typical school. Oh well, that isn't important! For now, lets roll up our sleeves and get to work!
AvtomatJ

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Refugee
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Reply with quote  #8 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckZombieHunter
Could be, more like the Commie AR's 180's??

Hell we both know Max don't know doodle about guns....just something he made up.

I think you would still need a computer driven CNC machine to build one? My point was you could not sit down at a bench and grind one out from a block of metal.

Dosen't really matter cause there would be a crapload of parts around, like you said every tom,dick and harry is building them.

Oh also a good example is the "NCR trooper rifle" off fallout New Vegas.

ServiceRifle.png



The AR-180 is just a civilian version of the AR-18.  If you want to learn more about it, google Armalite AR-18.  It was Eugene Stoner's cheaper, easier to build, more reliable answer to his own AR-15 weapon system.

Did they have CNC milling machines back in the 1950s-1960s when the AR-10 and AR-15 where first designed and manufactured?  I don't think there were, but I'm not completely sure either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helling
I look at who uses(the poor armys of the world) what and how long they have been useing it, and that we use the M-16 to come to this. Maybe a HK33(very cheap to make vs a AR or so i have readed)

IMI Galil(way better and cheaper then a AR but because during the late 1960s and early 1970s Israel received large shipments of the US M16 and CAR-15 assault rifles at the very low prices(free also) it did get not widely issued to the IDF during its lifetime) also it basically can be described as a modified Kalashnikov design so it has that going for it.

and the ruger mini-14 with heaver barrels( the rifle employs an investment cast and it's a very easy to use and clean weapon).

to me yeah,we would at 1st be using M-16 but from the people i have talked to, readied about and the few ar-15 i have used i know we could not maintained them for long(many already in use now need updateing). there parts monsters(so many things to go wrong and you need lots of extra parts to keep one running), the charging hand is very easy to break(also did it myself and was told the charging handle is the achilles heel of the AR design ) and their more but to get to the point the M16/ar-15 is a lamborghini and like one is very high maintenance and other designs are more pick-up or SUV maintenance. I can see lots of M16's going down in a zombie war because of maintenance and soldiers breaking stuff on them(I remember once i was at a gun store and they had a new AR-15 sitting on a glass display case and it got knock over falling to a carpeted floor. The stock broke off and the mag was driven so far into the action, they had to use a vice to removed it.)


I'll start off mentioning that I am a huge fan of the AK.  The "avtomat" part of my handle here is from "Avtomat Kalashnikova", if that gives you an idea of how big a fan I am. (I'm "AK-J" on some other boards, but I wanted to be a little different, and I didn't want anyone to think I was in a gaming clan with the initials "AK".)

I own several AKs and a AR-15.  Maintaining a AR-15 is no more difficult than an AK.  It requires it a little more often in rough conditions, but it's not a deal breaker.  I've run my AR-15 with over 600rds through it w/o cleaning and had no problems.  In fact, I have yet to have a single malfunction so far.  After 1500rds w/o a malfunction, it so far has a better record than my AKs.  Also, the AR-15 is not as fragile as you seem to think.  Seen several myself that have been put through a lot and keep on ticking. 

Most of what you will read on the internet and in gun magazines is gross exaggerations of the reality of how that weapons system preforms.  And most of what folks will tell you in person is them just regurgitating what they read or heard.  AKs are a lot more accurate than they are given credit for, but they don't quite live up to the hype around their indestructiveness (I've personally had broken firing pins and extractors on AKs).  And AR-15s aren't any where near as fragile or unreliable as some people like say they are.  Most issues people experience with AR-15s can be directly attributed to improper lubrication, crappy ammo, or crappy magazines. 

The Galil is an Israeli made AK.  However, it is heavy as hell for what it is.  The reason the IDF as basically fazed it out of service is because they were more expensive to produce, heavier, and offered no real advantages over the M-16 variants they now use. 

__________________
"... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -David "Davy" Crockett

"I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!" -Pvt. Joker, Full Metal Jacket
RedneckZombieHunter

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Reply with quote  #9 

No, the one i was thinking of is a straight blow back operated job with the charging handle on the bolt.*looks* like an m16/M4 but it's not. Very cheapy made. I've seen em' but can't remember what country was producing them or the model #.......hell to be old!


__________________
We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra."
Better THEM, than Me!-The only person who could miss with this gun is the sucker with the bread to buy it...... You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you dont want to fight in a GD basement. Just a reminder, Tuesday is Soylent Green day!
helling

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brony guardian
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Reply with quote  #10 

The HK G3 was made with as many stamped parts as possible to speed production and reduce cost. i think sheet steel stamping was used for the receiver,trigger unit,and pistol grip frame.  i readied that the reason  it was pick for some army's(just like the AK) is because it's reliable is a prudent choice, as cash stepped economy's can't afford spare parts and regular overhauls.

 

I know that in Pakistani that there industry is fully gear and up the the tasked of making G3 and AK's and that even small bike and machine shops can and do make them. so that why to me in a world of zombies like WWZ  were you might not  have the power to run cnc machine's and little resource (like metal's of unknown origin)something like the G3 or AK would become the Standard Infantry Rifle. Both the G3 and AK don't regular special alloys to make and some parts can be subtarened with you have on hand(I have hear of ak's with receivers and parts made of machined forgings,billets,stamped and even a polymer based AK like the glock).  also the finnish made AK's are as accurate  as the M16 but theirs have forged receivers, match barrels and the way better Lapua  ammo.

 

 

 


__________________
Welcome to Death Weapon Meister Academy. More commonly known as the DWMA. It stands as a defense against the forces of zombies , which would plunge the world into chaos and drag humanity into the very depths of fear and madness. The demons known as zombies , and their eternal hunger for destruction. To ensure that zombies never take hold on this world, this Academy was founded. So basically we're an organization that serves to protect and preserve peace! I guess it's not exactly a typical school. Oh well, that isn't important! For now, lets roll up our sleeves and get to work!
AvtomatJ

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Refugee
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Reply with quote  #11 
There are several things you have to understand about making weapons.  It might make sense to gear up for production of a different weapons system, other than the AR-15 weapons platform, if you were complete starting from scratch.  However, in a true WWZ scenario the USA wouldn't be.  Complete AR-15 type rifles or components are made in probably 1/3 or more of the states.  They are STUPID easy to assemble.  The parts are all built to the same spec, so you can literally farm out the manufacture of parts fairly easily, and have small assembly teams put them together.  Milling a forged aluminum billet doesn't require the same amount of time or energy as it does from steel (for obvious reasons).  I know guys that get together to build ARs and have "Build Parties" where a bunch of guys fully assemble ARs in under an hour.

On G3s, there is alot about the manufacture of them you don't seem to understand.  The stamped components are made by huge stamping machines that take up a lot of space, and use a lot of energy.  (If you have to power to run one of those, you can run a CNC.)  They are not as easy to make as you seem to think they are.  Just faster and less expensive to produce that milling bar stock steel (as what used to be the norm prior to WWII.)  BTW, they still contain milled components.  Pakistani guns fall far below in term of quality than the worst examples of European (east and west) or American made weapons.  There is a huge difference between a Romanian AK and a Pakistani version.  And an HK G3 is leaps and bounds higher in quality than the Pakistani version.

The Finns' AK is the exception to the general rule of AKs.  It's like comparing a custom competition 1911 to a original GI type.  The same, but not really.  The cost of construction is also much higher.

__________________
"... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -David "Davy" Crockett

"I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!" -Pvt. Joker, Full Metal Jacket
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