Infection / Destruction / Hope

The 3rd and final Morningstar Saga book, SURVIVORS, is now available for pre-order here!

The Morningstar Saga
Register  |   |   |  Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Nurgle

Avatar / Picture

Veteran
Registered:
Posts: 1,120
Reply with quote  #1 
I was thinking today i know alot of people here have lots of guns and would love to fight the zeds on Z-day but upon reflection i don't think its possible to fight them beyond the first days of the outbreak.

Why do i say this? its simple really it something most zed authors don't really put in books and that is the extreme bio-hazard threat the horde of zeds would be.

Now i know what ur thinking bio-hazard means the disease that turns people , but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm speaking of the combined rot of millions of dead bodies and the amount of disease that would be bred among the dead via insects. also there is a bacteria that is released when u die and start rotting i'd imagine being exposed to that bacteria on a massive scale could very well induce toxic shock.

In the past during the black death and other outbreaks people have resorted to mass graves because of the effect that multiple dead bodies clumped together has had not only the smell but the massive breeding ground for more disease.

The amount of flies on these hordes of zeds would literally be choking the air if anything the fly population would prolly go up x1000 imagine that many flies and how dirty and nasty they would be and how much infection they would bring. I would wager that to come within 1 mile of a horde could cause u to catch a myriad of diseases.

This is why i believe that in the case of zeds if we could not win before downfall that we would be doomed.

Kinda depressing thought i know but i just had to air it.

__________________
Raccoon_City_Survivor

Avatar / Picture

Snoogans
Registered:
Posts: 8,527
Reply with quote  #2 
How dare you use logic.

But yeah, you have a good point.  I haven't thought of this.

__________________
< agrees to ^

AvtomatJ

Avatar / Picture

Refugee
Registered:
Posts: 635
Reply with quote  #3 
I think it all depends on what type of zombie you subscribe to. 

If they decay slowly like in WWZ, your worries would be mute.  If they decay as fast as dead things normally decay, they'd be non-moving bloated corpses within weeks. 

I don't think you'd really have to worry about that as much as you think.  Boil and filter your water, and refrain from actually touching them without protective gloves, etc. , and you'd be good to go.

__________________
"... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -David "Davy" Crockett

"I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!" -Pvt. Joker, Full Metal Jacket
Nurgle

Avatar / Picture

Veteran
Registered:
Posts: 1,120
Reply with quote  #4 

But think of it AvtomatJ Have u been around 1 decaying dead thing the smell is quite strong multiply it by 1000 and it could possibly bring u to ur knees just being within a mile of a sizable pack. More than likely if ur hold up in some building the smell would easly get in and begin to work on u.


__________________
AvtomatJ

Avatar / Picture

Refugee
Registered:
Posts: 635
Reply with quote  #5 
Here's the thing.  If the living dead decay at the same rate as they would without being zombies, they'd be viable threats for a few weeks tops.  I don't think you'd have roving bands of zombies in very large numbers if they worked that way.  There's got to be something that slows down decay for them to fit into the threat level that exists in most fiction about them.

The smell of the dead will not kill you.  I've been around a number of dead things, some quite ripe.  Believe it or not, you'd eventually get used to it.  I sincerely doubt the smell could bring you to your knees by being quite close, much less a mile away.  Unless you're drinking untreated water (that they've been in contact with) or directly touching them, you're not going to get anything from them. 

The epidemics you talk about were spread from infected fleas, un-sanitary drinking water, and close contact with living infected people/animals.  The mass graves were done mainly because they didn't have the personnel and time to bury them in individual graves.  It was more for convenience than anything else.

__________________
"... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -David "Davy" Crockett

"I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!" -Pvt. Joker, Full Metal Jacket
DocT

Avatar / Picture

Zombie Slayer
Registered:
Posts: 644
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvtomatJ
Here's the thing.  If the living dead decay at the same rate as they would without being zombies, they'd be viable threats for a few weeks tops.  I don't think you'd have roving bands of zombies in very large numbers if they worked that way.  There's got to be something that slows down decay for them to fit into the threat level that exists in most fiction about them.

The smell of the dead will not kill you.  I've been around a number of dead things, some quite ripe.  Believe it or not, you'd eventually get used to it.  I sincerely doubt the smell could bring you to your knees by being quite close, much less a mile away.  Unless you're drinking untreated water (that they've been in contact with) or directly touching them, you're not going to get anything from them. 

The epidemics you talk about were spread from infected fleas, un-sanitary drinking water, and close contact with living infected people/animals.  The mass graves were done mainly because they didn't have the personnel and time to bury them in individual graves.  It was more for convenience than anything else.


I have to agree with AvtomatJ.  With time the smell will still be noticeable, but not something that would knock you over. If you ever worked a farm, you would know how this works already.

Decay rates are irrelevant, since there are no real Zombies to test. However, I will concede that writers usually imply "delayed" decay rates, so that the characters will interact with Zombies after the first few weeks of PAW. If the body decays to much, then the bones start to fall off the corpse.



__________________
"When a guy walks away from three 5.56 rounds to the face, then I will give up my AR15."
helling

Avatar / Picture

brony guardian
Registered:
Posts: 287
Reply with quote  #7 
I plan would be to make fire pits and toss the undead into them to get rid of them.  There are a lot of open fire pits i have seen in FL and i would draw them there and just kill and drop the bodys into one. Or just  fell up a old home or other wood building and set fire to it.  I have many anit-zombie plans like the use of farm/ construction equipment for area zombie killing.

Just open thing about a burn pit

This practice can be harmful to human health and environment and should only be used until more suitable disposal capabilities are established. The U.S. Army has noted that under military field conditions, solid and liquid wastes can be as much as 100 pounds per day per person (USACHPPM Fact Sheet 65-035-0503). If human wastes cannot be chemically treated or buried, burning of waste may be a necessity to prevent the development and spread of disease carried by flies, rats, and other vermin.

 

Burning solid wastes in an open pit generates numerous pollutants. These pollutants include dioxins, particulate matter, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, volatile organic compounds, carbon monoxide, hexachlorobenzene, and ash. Highly toxic dioxins, produced in small amounts in almost all burning processes, can be produced in elevated levels with increased combustion of plastic waste (such as discardeddrinking water bottles) and if the combustion is not at high incinerator temperatures. Inefficient combustion of medical or latrine wastes can emit disease-laden aerosols.

 

from http://deploymenthealthlibrary.fhp.osd.mil/products/Open%20Pit%20Burning%20(55).pdf

 

so do it far from were you make camp.


__________________
Welcome to Death Weapon Meister Academy. More commonly known as the DWMA. It stands as a defense against the forces of zombies , which would plunge the world into chaos and drag humanity into the very depths of fear and madness. The demons known as zombies , and their eternal hunger for destruction. To ensure that zombies never take hold on this world, this Academy was founded. So basically we're an organization that serves to protect and preserve peace! I guess it's not exactly a typical school. Oh well, that isn't important! For now, lets roll up our sleeves and get to work!
ZombieHunter

Avatar / Picture

MODERATOR
Registered:
Posts: 3,120
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by helling
I plan would be to make fire pits and toss the undead into them to get rid of them.  There are a lot of open fire pits i have seen in FL and i would draw them there and just kill and drop the bodys into one. Or just  fell up a old home or other wood building and set fire to it.  I have many anit-zombie plans like the use of farm/ construction equipment for area zombie killing.

Just open thing about a burn pit

This practice can be harmful to human health and environment and should only be used until more suitable disposal capabilities are established. The U.S. Army has noted that under military field conditions, solid and liquid wastes can be as much as 100 pounds per day per person (USACHPPM Fact Sheet 65-035-0503). If human wastes cannot be chemically treated or buried, burning of waste may be a necessity to prevent the development and spread of disease carried by flies, rats, and other vermin.

 

Burning solid wastes in an open pit generates numerous pollutants. These pollutants include dioxins, particulate matter, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, volatile organic compounds, carbon monoxide, hexachlorobenzene, and ash. Highly toxic dioxins, produced in small amounts in almost all burning processes, can be produced in elevated levels with increased combustion of plastic waste (such as discardeddrinking water bottles) and if the combustion is not at high incinerator temperatures. Inefficient combustion of medical or latrine wastes can emit disease-laden aerosols.

 

from http://deploymenthealthlibrary.fhp.osd.mil/products/Open%20Pit%20Burning%20(55).pdf

 

so do it far from were you make camp.


Depending on how far along the outbreak and devastation is, burning corpses could also call a lot of attention to yourself. I think corpses would emit a large amount of smoke. And, living in Florida, I'd think there would be a lot of corpses to burn. It wouldn't be worth your time at all. 

__________________
Men get arrested, dogs get put down.
GruntLord

Avatar / Picture

HIGHSCHOOL of the DEAD
Registered:
Posts: 122
Reply with quote  #9 
if we are talking about dissposing the dead bodys then you can do it multiple ways.

1.) you can burn them you might want to do it a ways  from your base or survivle home. here is a idea i got for this. you can eather find,dig,etc trenches then fill a thing layer of a flamible substance at the bottem. then grab a car battery a conection to a sterio system with some large speakers. then keep it in the center with the large trench or pit around it. start playing music as loud ass you can to draw the dead in. since the dead are drawn by sound and sight.when the first zombie comes along light the flamible substance or wait for more if it does not stay lighted for long.once you get enough zombies or dead in there then you dont have to worry about any fuel to feed the fire. have a route out that will get you out of there before tomany arive and to not be seen by them so the all go to the pits


2.)if you just want to dump all your kills then use a nerby quary.

3.) throw them in a pile in a  old field you dont plan to use.


__________________
Imunity Rules!!!
Watch Highschool of the dead
I'm a highschool worrior ready for the paw while my fellow students quiver in fear!!!
nierahzee

Avatar / Picture

Postmortem Communications
Registered:
Posts: 1,126
Reply with quote  #10 
In terms of smell... The way the human body works... Your nose shuts down.  This is why people can live in ridiculously nasty conditions.  After a short period of time your nose automatically blocks the smell from your brain so you can keep functioning.

If you've ever dissected an animal, this is the first thing you're told as you remove the carcass from the formaldehyde.  When you have sat around that little piglet or cat fetus or whatever for 15 minutes, you don't smell the formaldehyde anymore.

I'd imagine there's no reason the human body wouldn't continue to function in this manner and everyone would be quickly be indifferent to the smell.

What about smell as a defense you say?  This is also factored into the way humans sense of smell works.  Notice if you leave to get a burger and come back... You smell that little piglet again for fifteen minutes or so?  That's your body making sure you don't completely forget the smell, just in case it comes in handy and saves your life.

Sooooo...  Have to stick around zombies a lot?  Can't smell 'em.  Go to a fresh, safe zone... A zombie sneaks through the perimeter.  You'll smell his ripe ass from a safe distance.

__________________
"Old necromancers never die."
romulus8541

Avatar / Picture

Avenger
Registered:
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #11 

The University of Tennessee maintains an experimental area where observations are made on decomposing corpses. They find that flies lay their eggs in wounds on dead bodies, and maggots appear before 30 hours at about 23ยบC. This approximates the time required for liquid decomposition products to begin to appear on the surface of a body. We could not find any evidence for the migration of liquid decomposition products through the cloth; therefore, the cloth could not have been in contact with the body for very long. Decomposing bodies start producing ammonia (NH3) in the lungs quite soon after death, and the ammonia diffuses outward through the nose and mouth. Ammonia is lighter than air, and it diffuses rapidly. The rate of production of ammonia decreases with time after death.

 

Within a few hours, depending on weather conditions, a body starts to produce heavier amines in its tissues, e.g., putrescine (1,4-diaminobutane), and cadaverine (1,5-diaminopentane). These amines are much heavier than air, and they diffuse relatively slowly. Experiments prove that slow diffusion relates to increased resolution in image formation. The early appearance and rapid diffusion of low-molecular-weight ammonia from the nose and mouth might help explain the greater amount of image color between the nose and mouth, in the beard, and into the nearby hair. It will also diffuse through the cloth more quickly and reach the back side of the cloth in greater concentration. Ammonia will diffuse about 20 cm through air while cadaverine is diffusing only 6 cm.

So if a Zombie is infected and that virus, parasite, or whatever works for you is contaminating the host, it's safe to assume that the (INSERT REASON HERE) will literally destroy anything foreign attempting to invade the host. Including weaker bacteria, mosquitoes, flies, etc...


__________________
"The will to win is important, but the will to prepare is vital."
jake1100

Avatar / Picture

Veteran
Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #12 
toxic shock? isnt that what they have a warning for on tampon boxes?

__________________
"Legal" and "illegal" are fuzzy gray areas for me.

I go with "moral" and "immoral" instead. Those are usually pretty clear-cut.

-Z
Raccoon_City_Survivor

Avatar / Picture

Snoogans
Registered:
Posts: 8,527
Reply with quote  #13 

That was some awesome info, Rom.


__________________
< agrees to ^

cleopori2001

Trooper
Registered:
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #14 

In most cases aren't Zombies animated corpses? So... Wouldn't they already be smelly, and decomposing?  Also given that the PAW may not happen until much further into the future, you can save on ammo by setting up a ten foot high electrical fence around the perimeter of your survival area. That would be powered by solar energy. This would cause a muscle comtraction that the Zs wouldnt be able to overcome.

Raccoon_City_Survivor

Avatar / Picture

Snoogans
Registered:
Posts: 8,527
Reply with quote  #15 
It'd also fry their brain, if it's powerful enough.

Actually, anyone who owns their own house and property should have done this already.

__________________
< agrees to ^

alex51

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,942
Reply with quote  #16 
I would imagine disposing of bodies would get organized after the initial problem is solved by just shooting them on sight. NBC gear with skid loaders and dump trucks to pick up the corpses dumped into something like a gravel pit to be burned.. Or garbage trucks like in the movie Rabid. In any case could it be much worse than the tsunamis and earthquakes that killed thousands which is bad enough but you don't have the ruined infrastructure to also deal with. 
__________________
RedneckZombieHunter

Avatar / Picture

Rated "R" as in Anti-AR ;~)
Registered:
Posts: 2,727
Reply with quote  #17 

Unicorns are immune...


__________________
We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra."
Better THEM, than Me!-The only person who could miss with this gun is the sucker with the bread to buy it...... You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you dont want to fight in a GD basement. Just a reminder, Tuesday is Soylent Green day!
helling

Avatar / Picture

brony guardian
Registered:
Posts: 287
Reply with quote  #18 

 
kill all zombies and burn them.
 
 



__________________
Welcome to Death Weapon Meister Academy. More commonly known as the DWMA. It stands as a defense against the forces of zombies , which would plunge the world into chaos and drag humanity into the very depths of fear and madness. The demons known as zombies , and their eternal hunger for destruction. To ensure that zombies never take hold on this world, this Academy was founded. So basically we're an organization that serves to protect and preserve peace! I guess it's not exactly a typical school. Oh well, that isn't important! For now, lets roll up our sleeves and get to work!
The_Stickman

Avatar / Picture

Carrier Chow
Registered:
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #19 
Off the topic of the disease/smell, I thought of something that could pose a problem for British folks in the zombie apocalypse. Doesn't Britain ban all guns from civilian households? Smart for current civilization, VERY BAD for England's chances of survival
__________________
- The Stickman
Livy

Avatar / Picture

Trooper
Registered:
Posts: 572
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Stickman
Off the topic of the disease/smell, I thought of something that could pose a problem for British folks in the zombie apocalypse. Doesn't Britain ban all guns from civilian households? Smart for current civilization, VERY BAD for England's chances of survival


England, Scotland, Northern Ireland.

__________________
Nurgle

Avatar / Picture

Veteran
Registered:
Posts: 1,120
Reply with quote  #21 
The gun thing is most of europe really, the USA is really unique in respect to our gun laws.

Hell in britian there are such a thing as armed and unarmed police officers.

__________________
John_Brian_K

Avatar / Picture

Post-Accumulating Whore
Registered:
Posts: 2,750
Reply with quote  #22 

Yeah the police in Dubai are little scrawny fuckers with a mace bottle.  No guns.  I guess they figure if your stupid enough to commit a crime in Dubai you will really only get one or 2 people before the ............... well you know.


__________________
====
JBK
Dec 09, 2009 at 10:18 AM
========================
"Something my granddad used to tell us. You know Macumba? Voodoo. My granddad was a priest in Trinidad. He used to tell us, "When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth."
Mystery

Avatar / Picture

Carrier Chow
Registered:
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #23 
Greetings,

Saying, 'dead things stink,' is a learned reaction. Dead things, in the process of rot, actually smell sweet. It's saying, 'hey, don't you want some of this?' Nature's way of cleaning.

Smells are synaptic messages carrying information to the brain. Association of this information helps in our interaction with the world.

"Rot" sounds bad, but most of us prefer soft decomposition to rough & tough 'fresh meat.' How long we "AGE" our meats varies, but even fruits become sweeter with time off the vine.

It would be nice if a writer shared the story of someone without any 'death' experiences or socially learned behaviors; following a smell they couldn't identify, only to discover (in shock) an unwholesome dead thing. 50k years ago, the individual would've eaten it, blessing human descendants with stronger brain power. Today, it would depend upon imminent death and adaption of social barriers.

Sinisterly,
Mr. E.


RedneckZombieHunter

Avatar / Picture

Rated "R" as in Anti-AR ;~)
Registered:
Posts: 2,727
Reply with quote  #24 

Actually I think it would be like when you take a load of junk to the dump. Upon arrival it's freaking horriable, after unloading and dumping say 10-30 mins it's not too bad. Sucks but liveable.


__________________
We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra."
Better THEM, than Me!-The only person who could miss with this gun is the sucker with the bread to buy it...... You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you dont want to fight in a GD basement. Just a reminder, Tuesday is Soylent Green day!
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.